Scribbling on Divorce: Addendum

I have been receiving comments on my previous post: Scribbling on Divorce here in friendster, in my multiply blog (a replicate of this blog) and in my personal e-mails. 

While some agreed, others objected.

I want to keep this as open, objective and two-sided as possible.  I don't take it personally against them, though some seemingly sound to attack me personally.  However I want to let the people know that I respect their opinion, and deserve a fair share of space. 

Read on...

Tin Guevarra

a friend
former Associate Editor of Sinag -- CSSP, UP Diliman Official Publication
former YFC leader, San Juan MM
former guidance counsellor of PISAY - Philippine Science Highschool
Medical Student - University of Sto. Tomas (present)

If there is already and existing system, especially in our country, why add another one? According to the site you sent me http://www.filipinawives.com/Annulment.htm, our country already has a family code on annulment so whether you're Catholic or not, you're qualified to file annulment according to the enumerated grounds. So why add another system if the present suffices?

About the "grounds proposed by Rep. Maza", I dont know about that (I don't have much time to read on that, maybe next time. Besides, Im not a law student hehe) what I know is she is a feminist. So, she must have bias towards the good of women (and children? I dont know). I think the idea of divorce would be more inviting for some if it has come from somebody neutral. But then again, you know me =P I think nobody and nothing can convince me to become a divorce advocate. Kaya nga kahit busy ako e, nagcocomment ako, sabi mo eh! =P hehehe

The difference of divorce and (Church) annulment, I guess, is that the Church is more stringent and meticulous in such cases that's why it takes time because people can't just marry and divorce, marry and divorce, and marry and divorce, which not only makes void the union in marriage but also the sanctity of the vow, "For better or worse, til death do us part."

Special cases like abuse, infidelity, shotgun marriages, are dealt with aptly by annulment. Even if divorce is already used in the West, it doesn't mean it is right or it fits our culture. Studies on the lives of those who underwent divorce as well as their families should be done and Im sure a great percentage would show that really, divorce didn't do anything good (long term) to them. Again, special cases like abuse, infidelity, shotgun marriages, are dealt with aptly by annulment.

Marital problems are values problems. Compatibility should be assessed before marriage and re-assessed til the end of their lifetime by withstanding the storms life brings to their relationship. Somehow I could not separate the idea of divorce as the solution for the infidels. And I strongly abhor that! Because for me, divorce is a "light" to those hiding in the dark...you know what I mean. And it keeps them confident in staying in the dark. Thus, our generation marks the destruction of families, which is the basic unit of the society. I dont want to be a part of that.

Divorce is a "temporary solution". Why opt for something "temporary"? And why go for something that has "co-morbidities"?

Thanks, Naoms, for allowing me to comment even if I dont know much about laws. =P Intriguing topic you have! hehehe *( ^ ^, )*

Dr. Gerardo S. Fernando

an Uncle
Member, Couples for Christ Vancouver Canada,
Pediatrician
Former member of the Faculty of F.E.U. Institute of Medicine
Owner, O Thai Restaurant, Vancouver Canada

 

I think...Void from the very start can be ground for annulment

Falsification   getting a marriage license as 20 or 21 when actually they are 15/16 ;
One is   of different religion Buddhist or one is Catholic can be annulled but not a ground for Divorce
Forced to   sign documents...
Getting married outrside of the church example in the beach,  which is officiated by the Priest... why because they are not allowed to officiate the marriage outside of the church.. ( I Think). In the above even if there is no conflict, Annulment can proceed.. why? because they are void from the start.

If the partners are physically/emotiona lly/spiritually at war they need counselling not divorce. One need to be humble and be sorry forthe hurt one has done, and the other to accept  and give the forgiveness.  Pride is the cause of the conflict which should not be tolerated  by Divorce.

The Divorce law is for lawyers to earn more. Sorry Naomi.
...

We should consider all aspects before even considering  it( Divorce) as the solution ... Pinag iisipan, pinagaaralan, ano ang magiging effecto nito sa atin, ating familya  kaibigan at iba pang tao., hindi lamang ang ating sarili. Kung ang problema hindi magkasundo.. baka may iba pang paraan para magkaintindihah. I gave your parents as example,  at times couples have  mis understanding, minsan fights, minsan deep tampuhan and duringthat time that there is conflict the only solution one considers would be  a divorce kasi physically, emotionally, financially  ay naafectohan.   It is not enough to say mas importante ang telephone bils at etc.. This will affect the future generations our future families. so one must really have a stand. The right Stand.

  God Bless.
...

This is very interesting communications among all of us. We ahve learned a lot. We express what is inside us.  And at the end we all thank the Lord for our family. That is why we ask the Lord to bless our marriage , our family.

As for the case of Amy and Brix,   their relationship need further scrutiny/evaluation .... It looks galit
talaga sila sa isa't isa. parang walang forgiveness at walang humility to accept one's mistake and ask for forgiveness. .  At the start , they both love each other at the end  what is left is one's anger and pride. What do they need, spiritual advice, counselling , renewal  and total acceptance of mistakes and forgiveness. We attended  a   family retreat. One speaker was asked how many times will he forgive his wife if she committed adultery. He answered a 100 times. one of the couples we knew had the same problem. But the girl fall in love with a lesbian. The husband became physically abusive. What should he do. He asked us. i told him what the speakers have said. I will keep my family intact. I will forgive her.  The children knew of what had happened. They only asked one thing to their parents. they forgive them of what had happened to them. The request,  please do not file for divorce  you can live on separate beds under one roof but please do not file for divorce. The husband prayed hard. He asked forgiveness for the hurts/insult and the pain  of being an abusive husband and forgive her wife of what she did.  I do not know what the wife did... but now they are living a testimony of forgiveness and humility and very happy as a family. God bless.

Let us stand for what is right  or righteous all the time.Sometimes we will be ridiculed for what we stand for. or we amy not be popular. Thank you and God Bless every one.

Love, T. Joji



Allan Fernando

a Good-looking cousin
A Father of 3
Professional, San Francisco, California

Note: In reaction to my answers to the questions in my previous post.
 

Just a layman's view. Peace...

 

How do you differentiate divorce from annulment?

  

I think the catholic church doesn't allow re-marriage after a divorce as opposed to annulment (as long as approved by the church herself).

Are you in favor on the legalization of divorce?

  
I don't think convenience should be a reason for preferring divorce over annulment.  As I understand them, the process are both tedious, highly emotional and often times traumatic (I don't mind being labelled psychologically incapacitated as long as makalaya ako sa impyernong buhay kasama ng bruha kong asawa.) They both will also cost you a fortune.

 

By the way, I'm "okay" with divorce (as I'm okay with annulment, too).

 

 

What are the grounds for divorce proposed by Rep. Liza Maza?

 
This is where my problem is.  I've known a few people here that went through divorces and ended up paying alimony to their wives.  The collapse of their marriages weren't  100% the husbands' fault but being more successful in their carreers than their partners, they ended up writing checks every month for the alimony to their former wives (aside from child support for their kids who often times end up with the moms).

   
What is your stand on  the divorce bill?

 Answered already in the 2nd question.  (I'm more worried about my telephone and electric bills). 

 
Isn’t this against your Catholic teaching?

 This would be a very delicate subject.  There will always be conflicts between state laws and church doctrines.  It's like science and religion, if you believe in God, you will find it hard to accept Charles Darwin's theory of evolution or the "Big Bang Theory" of the solar system.  I would only see divorce as some solution to legal matters. As for my faith, I'll still pray and attend masses. I'll probably just cross my arms by my chest and bow my head for the priest's blessing ('coz if I'm not mistaken, they won't let me receive the host).  It's hard to belong to a group and not believe in their beliefs and ideas.  I'd rather get out of the circle.

Doesn’t the divorce bill violate the constitution in which it declares that “the state has the obligation to protect the family as an inviolable social institution?”

 Masyado kasing nagmamadali sa pag-aasawa, eh.  Sabi nga ng mga matatanda, "ang pag-aasawa ay hindi parang mainit na kaning isusubo, na iluluwa mo pag napaso". 

Sana

magkaroon na lang ng preventive law rather than cure.

 
If ratified, wouldn’t this be alarming that there might be a sudden mad rush to have courts to have marriages terminated and people will file for divorce in the simplest pretext (In US, i.e. snoring, not tightening the cap of the toothpaste, and a spouse spending hours on the telephone).

I don't believe there will be a mad rush in divorce applications.  We, filipinos, are too proud to let others know our failures (to raise a family or maintain a solid marriage, etc.).  Aside from the fact that this will cost a lot (magkano na ba kilo ng manok sa Pilipinas?  Sine yata eh P100.00 na sa orchestra.)
....

I know they've (and us, too) been through a lot but, to quote myself on my earlier statement... .."Ang hirap kasing magbigay ng diretsong opinion coming from a well intact and so very loving family, eh.  Pero, to contradict my earlier statement, I think covenience wise (not in the procedural sense but more on the ending of emotional, physical and mental sufferings of the "bitter" halves) siguro we should have divorce in the Phil. Magkakatalo lang siguro sa mga requirements, kasi I don't think we can 100% pattern it with the westerners because of our traits and cultural peculiarity. Generally, masyado kasing close knit ang pamilya ng mga Yonip"... 

 
Our family (clan) is bound by too much love and forgiveness; and mantled by Nanay's prayers, humility and love, so with that in mind, it's kinda (naks, masyadong slang, 'di na lang sabihing "kind of") hard for me to really give a strait forward opinion and make a solid stand on this issue.  So it's really 50/50 for me (Naomi, this also qualifies as an opinion from a very confused individual, ha). 

We probably should consider it as a very last resort for legal marriages, which cannot be saved anymore by in any ways, including numerous counsellings, to dissolve. But, as I also stated earlier, stict requirements must be set and all petty reasons be disqualified (like paghihilik, bad breath, b.o., pag-inom, etc.)  Or better yet, only batteries (physical and mental, lalo na to the point na halos patayin na ang pamilya sa gulpi) of spouses and/or children should be the only ground for divorce ( as I know this is the main reason for the introduction of this bill). 

Kaya nga sabi ko

sana

mag-introduce na lang sila ng preventive bill kaysa cure.  Nowadays kasi in the

Philippines

masyado nang liberated and mga kabataan and the proliferation of cheap and quickie motels like SOGO which, I believe, often times admit minors.  This will surely lead to so many thing including unwanted pregnancies and forced (moral, physical and mental) marriages.  Dito na magreresulta ang mga failed marriages,  Then again, this will be a separate topic. Hay naku, sabi na nga ba masyadong complicated ang issue na ito.  Masyadong sanga-sanga.  Baka nga kahulihan n'yan isisi lahat ang mga problema natin sa poverty (as what I used to learn in my Sociology back then), or sa labandera d'yan (hindi nga ba? shhh).

Well anyways, I'm happy medyo naalis ang utak ko sa mga problema at masyado akong nag-eenjoy mag-isip ng ibang bagay na wala namang relasyon sa aking buhay.

 

Laging nagmamahal, kapamilya at kapuso ninyo (kasangbahay  na rin - UNTV channel 37)

 

Sharon Lovendino

a Good-looking cousin
A Loving Mother of 3
Nurse Graduate,  Fatima University

Hi everyone, 

 

 

I am reading your blog about divorce and annulment... .I also read tintin's comment. and i agree with her but at first i really don't want to comment about it. since pag dating sa law everything is different... .pero nabasa ko din some emails not all ni tito joji...

 

considering my marriage is not really good but i am not thinking about annulment and divorce... NO!NO! god bind us and it is only GOD with seperate us...i am noot really considering divorce because marriage is not only for husbands and wives, the reason why people get married is because they want to have family which consist of mom and dad, children and family of both parents(the typical filipino family always extended as in super extended)... kaya if one consider divorce maraming buts and cons and matters na have to consider especially the feeling of the kids.... tignan mo sa streets maraming bata ang napariwara dahil wala ng magulang or nanay lang ang kasama at nagtratrabaho pa...in short walang gumagabay sa kanila kaya nag kaganun sila...if we legallize divorce marami ng hindi mag hohold on sa marriage bows na sinumpaan sa house ni god kasama at na witness ng buong family at friends mo....medyo barok ako mag explain but i hope you get the msg... pag legal na yun iisipin ng isa ay di kami mag kasundo kasi ang asawa ko ganito ganito kaya dapat mag divorce na lang kami...pero if walang divorce ganto ang sasabihin mo...." GOD, please help us to be strong, enlightened both my mind and my partner, let our kids understand our trials and help us to explain to them that we will make it through cause were FAMILY..." at mag uusap kayong mag asawa at mag tratry kayong ayusin yun....basta ganun.... i don't like divorce!!!!

Jaz

friend
Student, Carleton University
Highschool, International School of Brussels, Germany
(FYI, her former schoolmates: grandson of the founder of Toyota Motors in biology class,  played field hockey with Nicholas Burn’s daughter [the current under-secretary of state for political affairs in the US], grandson of Enrique Bolaños [the president of Nicaragua] 

I thought this was a very interesting read though, my knowledge about law is very limited. I was just wondering if this bill has been passed by the Senate, or not?

 

Also, with regards to the question about the financial effects of annulment and legal seperation being different to that of divorce, isn't divorce as costly? I mean, here in the West, it's so expensive for couples to get a divorce and some ex-wives who are gold diggers make a livin out of it (i.e. Heather Mills, Paul McCartney's ex).

 

And if this is the case, it means that the bill will only be available to the upper-class couples in the Philippines, which is like 10 to 20% of the population? So is it really worth having at all? Doesn't it perpetuate further inequality? (Correct me if Im wrong pls)

 

Anywhoo, the topic of divorce in the Philippines can be a positive sign because it shows that the government and politics are "divorcing" because politics and religion don't mix, especially when your citizens don't all share the same religion.
 

...

Sorry I meant to say, "the government and the Catholic Church are 'divorcing', not goverment and politics.

Michelle

former classmate, friend
Mother of 2 beautiful kids
BA Behavioral Science Graduate, UP Manila

I agree with the divorce. I'm happy with my marriage by the way, but I have friends who are tied with marriage that is already failing yet they don't want to seek annulment because it just seems unfair not to acknowledge a marriage that produces their wonderful children.